Wahh?

Why is it, people insist on thinking they are the only ones with an opinion?
You need to play more, and worry less about what other players are doing....

So, you are saying that they should never be able to leave their starting system until they join a player corp? When I leave my player corp, I should be stuck in that system until I join another corp?

Did you think this through?

Allow me to respectfully disagree. The rest of your positions are a little odd, but this one is terrible.

So tell me how again will moving all these NPC corp people into one man corps will solve your perceived problem?

You know, one man corps that are recycled every time a war dec happens... Or do you want a button on your keyboard that forces people to undock so you can shoot them?

i've just read the OP again, and i'm struggling to figure out how this isn't a troll thread.

also, how am i meant to finish the industry tutorial in an npc corp if i can't mine?

your ideas are terrible and haven't been thought out at all. hence, it's clearly just trolling. that or you're really, really dumb.

Personally, I think there is no way to truly make a wardec and overall PvP 'gamestyle' fit in an economically competitive player-driven PVP game and that they should all be effectively removed by making them deccable. But penning them up in some sort of 'gold farmer pen" in 0.9 and 1.0 systems might be a sensible alternative. Another good idea I heard was from Marlona Sky, saying that NPC corps should be barred from using specific kinds of ships like freighters. What do you think Sol?

except those systems get mined out within hours of downtime which will leave any one outside of the euro time zone perpetually unable to complete the tutorial due to the belts being mined out.

it wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation made fact by the contents of your posts.

the mining system doesn't need changing. why would we change a perfectly fine system to accommodate an even worse system being introduced?

not quite sure you understand how "improvements" work.

your suggestions add nothing to the game.

or we could let ccp use the time to add something to the game rather than pointlessly changing a system that doesn't need changing?

Can I ask you a serious question...

Do you think CCP is going to enact changes that will detrimentally affect a large portion of their player base?

We discussed this in my thread of how the forums caused CCP to change the game when it comes to mining barges being buffed because of the threads complaing about ganking.

Can you imagine the threadnaughts that will ensue if your changes were enacted?

Well, simple response: FU.
I like to sit in NPC corp - don't have to worry about morons declaring wars out of no reason and ganking me with no consequences. This char is purely PVE oriented, and I am not interested in any kind of PVP.
If you don't like it - that should not be my problem. Go find other players rady to PVP and fight with them.
GL!

this *is* my main character. i don't use an NPC corp alt to post/do my dirty work. i use an NPC corp character as my main character because the simple fact is; player corps have nothing to offer me.

i fail to see how using an npc corp character to shield a player from backlash is any different to using an alt in a player corp that they never log in, just create a character on an account, put it in a random player corp and send it isk to create bounties. not letting npc corp player use the bounty feature doesn't stop people being able to be "immune to backlash" it just means they have to click 2 more buttons to place a bounty.

it would be quicker, easier, and less hassle to just remove NPC corps if you truly have an issue with them. because your list of "demands" really are ill thought out and terrible. there's no getting around that.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.

Well you have to keep in mind if people are in NPC corps and using that system a great deal that they must really enjoy the benefits of said system.

When you propose major changes to said system, you must realize that people are not going to like said changes and there will have some major resistance to such a suggestion.

If you had taken some time to consider "Will the majority of EvE player accept this change?" then you have to come to conlusion at least the people in the NPC corps would not accept this change, then you have to consider how much of the player base will reject your ideas.

And you can't get to that point simply by posting a forum post. You get some idea, but people don't come out of the woodwork until something really bothers them.

this *is* my main character. i don't use an NPC corp alt to post/do my dirty work. i use an NPC corp character as my main character because the simple fact is; player corps have nothing to offer me.

i fail to see how using an npc corp character to shield a player from backlash is any different to using an alt in a player corp that they never log in, just create a character on an account, put it in a random player corp and send it isk to create bounties. not letting npc corp player use the bounty feature doesn't stop people being able to be "immune to backlash" it just means they have to click 2 more buttons to place a bounty.

it would be quicker, easier, and less hassle to just remove NPC corps if you truly have an issue with them. because your list of "demands" really are ill thought out and terrible. there's no getting around that.

especially since npc corp players already have less tools at their disposal.

Unless you are privy to information that the rest of us are not, I suggest you stop with the FUD.

An exploit is what CCP says an exploit is. Using an exploit is a bannable offense. I haven't seen anything lately about being banned for belonging to an NPC corp, so as far as I can tell, there is no exploit.


Mr Epeen

And as they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

I suppose you'll put this down as yet another negative opinion.

All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?

Quite honestly, and not meant as an offence, does your list come across as fascist. There are plenty of benefits for not being in an NPC corporation and anyone who does not respond to the positive reinforcement will likely not respond positively to your belt whipping, but quit.

If EVE drives you into believing such radical limitations are necessary then you might want to take a break from the game for a while. Again, no offence intended, but with your best interest in mind.

I do have an idea. We should make a huge statue of you and set it up in Jita next to the monument. Each time we are unhappy with the game do we fly into Jita and shoot at it.

Sounds funs, doesn't it?

My only question to those who wish to place restrictions on NPC corp activities: "Are you willing to accept these same people into your corp when they wish to join the "real" EVE? This includes all different types of playstyles, et al"

My alternative is simply remove the protections afforded to NPC corps to all equally. Make individuals deccable as if they were one-man corps. What could be more fair then total equality? Nobody is being punished, nobody singled out or afforded special treatment, everyone on an even footing.

You've asked ("...think of ANYTHING...") and you got an answer. I think such a statue makes for a great stress relief. You have no idea how stress can transform one into an irrational, blind and selfish monster!

Not a problem, and glad to give some thought on it. I see NPC corps as a "NIMBY" problem. For those unfamiliar with the term, it means "Not In My Backyard", and often comes up when, in RL, things like landfills and powerplants come up.

Just saying "I wouldn't let em in they can go somehwere ELSE!" seems, to me, like saying "Eww no build that powerplant in another area!" NPC corps, as is, are a necessary evil, abused by some, that hopefully a good solution can be found for.

Again, you have asked, not me. I only followed your request!

Restricting skills is obscenely different from restricting them from doing pretty much.. well... anything really but the bare bones of the game.

And yes, I don't agree with ANY of those ideas.

High sec is meant to be a place of relative safety. That's how it was designed.

Its the way its designed now though, and for a reason. I can imagine the kind of ganking that went on that really made growth near impossible for the game... seen the result of that kind of thing from EverQuest's PVP servers back in the early days of MMOs. Doesn't make for a healthy game, at all. And yes, I do believe that NPC corp players should be free to place bounties.. New Highsec Order being a prime example of why.

What problem are you trying to solve? You claim that the bounty system is "ruined" by NPC corp players. How? What is the problem you are trying to solve?

What is "the NPC Corporation Exploit"? I hae never heard of it, and you are presenting this term as if it should be common knowledge. What is the problem you are trying to solve. Pretend that I am a gormless twit, so you will need to provide illustrative examples of why it is bad for a rookie in an NPC corp to be able to place a bounty on the capsuleer who blew up his wreathe containing all his worldly possessions.

Why is it bad for NPC corp members to mine or harvest ice?

Didn't read the whole thread....

Still trying to understand how being in an NPC corp is "abuse" of game mechanics.

Some people just don't want to deal with the BS that griefers cause.

They already have high tax rates in NPC corps and they don't have the benefits that come with being in a fully funded and well oiled player corp.

Seems like OP just wants to be able to shoot easy targets that can't defend themselves and get a pat on the back for being a big boy now.

Main problem are alts not npc corps. CCP loves alts. Npc corps are irrelevant.

No, the ONLY possibvle motivation you could have is you want people to play just like you do

I haven't read the thread

PRCs have access to cumulative wealth of the members in terms of knowledge and experience, access to stockpiles of items, ships, resources, skill capability and teamwork. Social networks that can organize fleets, persue and create emergent gameplay, place a monopoly on entire star systems, ensure members get crucial training, and the ability to set tax rate to 0%.

People in NPC corps are 95% people playing solo to benefit from not being able to be forced to play to the whim of other players through wardecs, 5% are new players just starting.

Your entire OP reeks of arrogance and an assumption that people have to play the game to your liking. If it's so great to be in an NPC corp why aren't you in one? Shouldn't you be reaping the supposed great benefit that so many you hate are doing?

You sound like a little kid that wants to run the sandbox and are mad that someone smarter than you found a way to enjoy their gameplay time that much more and you want it gone.

The point of the game is to have fun, not to "play the way Sol Weinstein wants everyone to play".

Reserved.

Also. I like the part about players in an npc corporation not being able to leave basic starting areas, to interact with other players, and find new corps to join through running into people, or being able to explore the game a little before they purchase it.

I think anything that further restricts new players from enjoying the game, and steers them away from it, is excellent business sense, and CCP should hire the OP immediately. His ideas are sound and without flaw. With his vision, we will eradicate much of the playerbase, and have a pure, pvp oriented eve, free of hauler/npc industrialist/mission runner/highsec miner scum!

While I completely agree that something should be done to make long term membership of an NPC corp less attractive I think the OP is a little extreme.

No character, regardless of what corp they are a member of should be restricted in the kind of system they can go into, or not have the ability to use their spaceship to affect the spaceships of other players, the ability to go wherever you want and do whatever you want to anyone so long as you're willing to accept the consequences are the fundamental aspects of the game and no person who is paying a subscription for this game should be restricted from them.

By all means make being in an NPC corp suck balls by putting a big old tax on all market transactions or even do something lore-fitting like have all non-rookie NPC corps be at war with the non-rookie NPC corps of their factional enemies (I mean people keep saying that the empires are meant to be at war with eachother, but it's pretty hard to tell). But the basic functionality of the game should remain intact.

What you describe is propably intentional, but it might not seem that way to you, since you're missing one important reason the NPC corps exist in the first place. That is to provide a final safe haven for all players to recuperate and lick their wounds. It's there to make sure you can't be griefed out of the game by in-game means. That reason for existing is specifically targeted for old and new players. No matter what enemies you make and how many people you **** off there needs to be an area where you can go get back on your feet and gather resources to try again. It's where people go when they're tired of the normal stressful drama and just want to get away from it all for a while. It ensures, that you always have other options besides quitting the game when you're driven to a corner or just need a break.

war decs.
if they already have less tools, why are you making a redundant thread?

i said tools because wardecs belong to a set of tools, plural.
also your suggestions don't add anything to the game, i have no idea why this thread is even being taken seriously.

all you're suggesting is making the game unplayable to a subset of players. it doesn't address any issues and is a complete waste of CCP's time

there's nothing here to discuss, just a laundry list of ways to make npc corp players unable to actually play the game. do i never need to explain why that's a dreadful idea? because i'm not going to, it should be self evident.

discussion about what? a system that works perfectly fine and doesn't need changing? again, this topic is a waste of time.

how will it make the game unplayable? well people can't buy and sell, people can't mine, people can't move around. all there is to do is ship spin. that's why your ideas are awful, because it leaves the players in npc corps no way to actually play the game they're paying to play. these restrictions would be absurd on trial accounts, let alone full accounts.

i fail to see the problem npc corps are creating (tip: they aren't creating any problems).

if you tell me what "problem" you're trying to fix, i might take this thread a *little* more seriously.

Stuff.

so you're admitting there is no problem that you're trying to fix, and you just listed a bunch of stupid changes to waste every one's time in the most elaborate troll i've seen in a while?

ok, glad we've cleared that up.

I can see why the OP is the CEO of a 1 man Corp....

Did your main happen to get jumped by a SWA PVP roam, or something?

I think the OP has posted these ideas simply because he wants to shoot someone who is in an NPC corp and is afraid of Concord and hasn't realised killing a wardec target still has an isk cost.

What is the deal with NPC corps, why do people keep on complaining about them?

Is it because they can't be decc'd? Hell if you want pvp i got news for you, high sec might not be the most optimal place.

Also, destroy npc corps and prices will skyrocket to the point that a frigate will be an hard loss.

Seriously? So if they dare to venture outside of their "reservations" everyone can shoot them? If I was a new player, I'd quit.


These suggestions, and I use that term charitably, are terrible, and very poorly thought through.

Please, please, please, could you list the aspects of the game being ruined by players being permitted to be in NPC corporations so we can judge the suggestions for their impact on the problems you see as well as their impact on new players, players booted from corp, casual players, pro griefers, etc.

When I was running the tutorial missions they sent me into/through 0.7/0.6 sec space. Are those missions also to be banned?

ROFL,

So, you're really telling me that you didn't understand that I was agreeing with you Sol and being sarcastic to the people who were poo-pooing your idea? And then havign the nerve to tell ME to read lol.

You're just plain brilliant. -1 like.

Damn, you are so pompous! So, just to get into the spirit of things, I re-read your original post, and quote the same

1. How has placing bouties on players or
2. corps diminished the game? So bounties are placed on your toon/corp? This is a big deal?
3. As long as players in player corps can no longer rent slots in NPC stations then that's fine. Quid pro quo.
4. You're annoyed because you can't shoot at our cans? That can be the only reason for objecting to this, otherwise there is no difference

We pay 11% tax, are deprived of a LOT of features available to player corps, and STILL you're unhappy?

NPC players are hit with 11% tax on earnings and have no way to reduce it. For that level of tax I want something in return. Everything you complain about is paid for by that tax.

Haha, really they're not?

How odd, because people have repeatedly asked you what the actual problem is, but thus far you've declined to answer that question. Of course, I'm well aware if killing people is your objective you can't very well say that, as it'll undermine anything you say.

Now, if you'd be so kind and gracious as to actually spell out how people being in NPC corps is having a direct or indirect negative effect on everyone rather than just saying they do, then it would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

And I will state...again...as others have, that you do a completely **** job of laying out your arguments as to WHY these things are problems. Hence your proposed "fixes" are without base or merit.

Try again.

As an example, you state in your OP



Just saying it doesn't make it so. You fail to put forth any convincing argument to back up that statement?

How does a player in an NPC corp ruin bounties? As far as I am aware while you cannot put a bounty on an NPC corp, you can put a bounty on a player in an NPC corp.

If a player in an NPC corp is suicide ganked, why shouldn't he be allowed to place a bounty on his attacker for revenge?

Not too far up the thread you said you updated the OP. Now I have to read through the entire 9 pages, hoping to not miss some small piece?

The fact that you maybe answered those questions 8 pages later is proof of your failure to outline your proposal (both it's justifications and fixes) in your original post.

Good luck however with your arguments. Happily given your inability to formulate anything in a concise manner couple with your overly arrogant attitude will pretty much ensure something this stupid will never get implemented.

I seriously thought this game was all about the freedom to do whatever you wished within the scope of the "sandbox". As individuals we choose freely whether to work for a company/corporation or go into business for ourselves. Your ideas of "forcing" people out of NPC corps and into player owned corps. How many one-man corps do we really need? The chat in NPC corps can be rather invigorating at times. Placing such constraints, imho, limits the game and deviates from the "free" path.

While I agree that NPC corps should be limited to some degree, it is my opinion that the ones you listed are a tad bit harsh and not needed.

I would amend the list to be something similar to this...

1. Be able to declare war on an individual in a NPC corp. Said war-dec would follow the person for 24 hours after they leave the corp, and would set a 24 hour war with the receiving corp/alliance.
2. Disallow the CEO to disband a corp under a war-dec, except as a term of surrender. This would prevent corp-hopping single-man corps.
3. Any corp member that leaves a corp/alliance under war-dec would receive a 24 hour personal war-dec, that would follow them into whatever corp they join...if that corp is a player run corp/alliance, said corp would also get that 24 hour war-dec.

You appear to be hearing voices, as I haven't thanked you for anything, certainly not this vain attempt at an intellectual discussion.

You have fixed nothing, though you're under the delusion that you have..



Exactly right! It's a player choice, something that is vital in a player-driven game. In your opinion we ought to be limited to choices approved by you?

How about add this : "Any player corporation will have at least 10 people(and no trail accounts) after the day it founded, otherwise the corporation will be disbanded by concord."

No 0% tax private corps.

Hate versus NPC corps aside, I do see one issue that will be abused with your suggestion as written.

If you restrict them to research stations only in thier own NPC corp, many will stay in the starter corp or leave the corp they are in for research spots. Especcially if only those in that NPC corp can use them. Ever tried to find an empty research slot?

It would accomplish the opposite of what I think the OP wants to achieve.

Not sure if this has already been posted but:

Trial accounts should not be able to post links to outside webpages and contracts in chat channels.

I already posted on that same "revelation." While on the surface the OP suggestion sounds good, it doesn't take much imagination to realize what you'll have is even more indy alts being created just to have one or two in every NPC Corp, spamming productions lines all over again.
CCP would love it, though, 12 NPC starter Corps, 12 alts, 4 accounts..then there's the 12 holder NPC Corps, 4 more accounts. The failrly new or porr player will still have to wait days for an open line, and the older and richer players will gum up the works.

there is no need to change anything.

Posting in a troll thread.

EDIT: I suppose I should try to be constructive. So, here we go with that constructive-ness.

It seems very strongly to me as though OP has been the victim of a bounty placement, with the bounty-placer being the member of an NPC corp. In order for him to come here and make a thread about it, he must have had zero bounty before this alleged bounty-placement occurred, thus making him extremely angry. He decided to wardec the corporation of the person who bountied him, only to find that they are in a wardec-immune NPC corp. His blood boiling and his veins now pulsing with throbbing angry rage, OP decided "NPC corps are overpowered! They shouldn't be allowed to do this! Not to me! This is wrong! This is an EXPLOIT!" and came here to post his thread about how NPC corps are equal to rancid ***** in terms of being vile and needing to be made less-rancid, according to his opinion of what is and is not desirable. However, because one cannot create a justifiable thread on the act of placing bounties alone, OP decided that he should expand upon his original idea and came up with a hastily-prepared list of other ways to shackle, lock up, tie down, chain and otherwise inhibit the sandboxy freedom of anyone who's in an NPC corp.

Another Edit, Because I am Good at Editing: Watch as the OP responds to my post, accusing me of personally attacking him (I may or may not be, I didn't pay a lot of attention to that) and proceeds to condescend to me in the most demeaning and insulting way possible.

Edit Three (Last one, I promise) : I just noticed that OP is Amarrian. Maybe his condescending to everyone who isn't him is actually in-character! If so, then that would also explain why he dismisses the lion's share of disagreement as "not wanting to discuss" and/or "personal attacks", as well as insinuating very strongly that he only wants this thread populated by posts of people who agree with him.